Season Break Bonus Episode feat. a special guest!

"I am shocked how much I teared up with you describing the panels to me."

This week things are a little different. em was away, so a special guest joined rainbow to talk about Oikawa, sports, masculinity, queer animation, and so much more! 

43:01 Spoiler Zone Begins

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Transcript

rainbow

00:08

hello everyone and welcome to fly a queer haiku podcast. I'm rainbow. They she and wait. What's that? There's no em following behind me. That's because today is a very special season break episode. We have brought a guest on woo, and so my dear friend is here to join us. Would you like to introduce yourself?

SJ

00:29

yes, my name is SJ he him, and I know almost nothing about haikyuu yeah,

rainbow

SJ has, like a long time ago, read a couple volumes of haikyuu. We just watched the first episode to really get the overall vibe, and now we are going to watch season one, episode seven versus the great king, and we're going to do something a little bit different. Instead of doing our usual episode breakdown, which we've already done, go back and listen to it. It's a wonderful episode. We are going to do kind of a live commentary or live reaction to the episode. We're going to play it, we're going to record some reactions, we're going to edit those together into like a really great little section and then afterwards we're going to discuss the episode, we'll discuss Haikyuu, we'll broaden to talk about shipping and anime and all of that good stuff. We're very, very excited. Are you ready to get started?

SJ

01:20

Yes, let's do this. Hey Oikawa, he's for sure got the best hair so far too yeah, Oikawa has great hair.

rainbow

01:28

He's a pretty boy everybody loves him.

SJ

01:30

I think that's. As soon as you showed me the picture, I was like, yeah, that guy that's the one, yeah a pretty boy villain.

rainbow

01:37

I'm here for it yeah, and he really is.

SJ

01:39

He's giving villain face this whole episode yeah, the setter v setter, yes, yeah, all these guys just know everything about each other that is the thing about the volleyball world is it's very tight and everyone knows everything about everybody's backstory and personality it's true. That's definitely very realistic coming from club soccer. Yeah, we definitely hated specific people on other teams.

rainbow

02:01

Yeah yoo-hoo topia chan god, he's so annoying. I love him. I just he's like the epitome of. I just want to slap his hideous beautiful face to me, suki come on he's not. He's not the best at receiving me neither.

SJ

02:27

I do love the style of animation.

rainbow

02:31

It is so fun it's really yeah, it's really well done. I think it's beautifully animated and it's I think they really do a good job of showing the like dynamics of their movements yes, and emote, and the emotion, the emotion of it all yes, yeah absolutely animation and the music. That's Yamaguchi. That's Tsukishima's best friend. He's very concerned about him at all times.

SJ

02:51

It's really it's the ultimate ick to watch your boyfriend get beat up on yeah In public.

rainbow

02:56

Well, it's funny because Yamaguchi, when they meet new people, he'll brag about how tall Tsukishima is and Tsukishima is and Tsukishima's like. This is classic Hinata throwing a fit because nobody's paying attention to him. Another great thing about haikyuu is that they do a lot of explaining the ins and outs.

SJ

03:12

I can tell like you're actually learning volleyball strategy.

rainbow

03:15

I know more about volleyball than I do any other sport in the world because of this show. Because of the show yeah, nice, and it actually makes watching volleyball, like on TV or in person, really interesting.

SJ

03:28

Yeah.

rainbow

03:28

Because I understand what's going on.

SJ

03:29

Yeah, I get that. Oh, I love when he runs around, it really does get me.

rainbow

03:34

It's really good. It's very effective. This is one of my favorite spikes that Hinata does.

SJ

03:52

And he's got his eyes open and he fucking locks eyes with Oikawa oh, hot, right oh it's so good.

rainbow

03:54

Yeah, nothing like shutting a pretty boy up. Yeah, yep, everyone shook and they just won.

SJ

03:58

There's one again, seijo I know, that's the shit that makes me tear up yep, I and I just love.

rainbow

04:04

Oikawa looks so excited, he's so happy. That's the coach. Takeda just stunned silent. Yeah, he's never seen it before. A lot of the time, while they were like practicing in the gym, Takeda is doing his coach stuff.

04:16

He's making calls, he's wheeling and dealing, he's trying to get manager more than a coach almost yeah, so he's like he's the club advisor so he's like the adult who's able to make the connections for them, and ideally a coach is somebody who can do that and also teach them how to play the sport. But they don't have that at karasuno. So before you know, this is before coach Ukai shows up, and it's kind of Daichi who has to step into that coach role yeah oh, this is Takeda giving a very beautiful speech.

SJ

04:41

This is touching beautiful sunshine. Oh, it's rio de janeiro. I'm getting chills right now.

rainbow

04:48

Yeah, I've watched this a million times. And just a reminder Takeda is the literature teacher, so he loves to give like a poetic little speech okay, I was gonna say that was really lovely, interesting I would.

SJ

05:03

I would say that level of poetry usually is reserved for love poetry, for sure.

rainbow

05:07

But okay, here we go and then remember these two. And Kindaichi, too, is kind of the leader of everyone turning their back on kage. It was his idea, which, again, I didn't need to explain that, because now the show's giving you a flashback. It's true, I'm I'm tracking. I'm tracking with all of it. Yeah, and this was like the worst thing that's ever happened to Kageyama. It really did change him. It affected him very much.

SJ

05:28

I have a hard time feeling bad for him, though.

rainbow

05:30

For Kageyama, yeah, no, I get that specific moment no, I totally get it yeah, I'm excited to talk in the spoiler zone about that.

SJ

05:44

That's a great moment yeah, he's saying I've yeah because he's been replaced.

rainbow

05:48

Well, and we missed so in the last episode. Kindaichi and Hinata are talking about Kageyama and they're both like he sucks, he's so mean, he's rude. And then they both go to talk about his toss and Kindaichi says his tosses are the worst and Hinata says his tosses are the best. And Kindaichi's like wait, you can keep up with him. Oh, here we go. That's their whole dynamic. I think every time Oikawa interacts with Hinata it's a little flirty oh yeah, for sure, yeah, and there's just something that Hinata loves to stand right behind Tanaka, yeah.

06:23

Hinata just seems to be like the ultimate bottom there are a lot of people who would agree with you on that.

SJ

06:29

Yeah, yeah definitely Kawagama vibes, but not quite so angry all the time are you saying Oikawa has Kawagama vibes?

rainbow

06:37

yeah, yeah, definitely, he's got the skills and he knows it.

SJ

06:42

Yeah, he knows he's the shit he really does.

rainbow

06:44

He knows he's hot, he knows he's the best, and it's very infuriating. I just realized I think Tanaka has a pin on his book bag. That's like a lady in a bikini and I'm really upset now so you don't like to subscribe to the canon straight?

07:03

yeah, I mean well, it's just like. I just don't like. There is like a certain amount of objectifying women that happens. That's a wise right. There's a certain amount of objectifying women that happens in the show. That's really annoying. Okay, so these two are best friends, childhood best friends. They've been playing volleyball since they were little. I have a lot of feelings about iwo oi one thing that feels inaccurate is the duos.

SJ

07:27

I think there's a lot more, just widespread gay shit that happens in general. What do you?

rainbow

07:33

mean.

SJ

07:33

You know like, rather than just between two guys. Oh yeah, it's just like.

rainbow

07:36

There's just general like a general homosexual atmosphere.

SJ

07:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

rainbow

07:41

And I mean, I feel like at least in America, I feel like volleyball is kind of seen as a gay sport and I don't know if that's worldwide. But I think of, like in Top Gun there's like a homoerotic volleyball montage, like that's true. I think it's just a little bit more queer and it's not like because it's not like. I like I think Haikyuu does a really good job of showing that like it can be a very aggressive game, but at the end of the day, the crux of the game is about the teamwork and working together, which I think is not seen as quite as manly in our traditional gender norms.

SJ

08:19

That's true, and I mean, yeah, soccer is the same way. Yeah, field fairies is what people used to call the boys.

rainbow

08:25

Really, that's so interesting yeah.

SJ

08:27

That's only in the States, though. It's definitely not. Well, yeah, that's Feminized in the same way.

rainbow

08:32

Yeah, no, absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, I think it's feminized. Soccer is feminized in the United States because we have football in that, seen as like exactly the height of male domination masculine sports, exactly yeah just literally guys running into each other and tackling each other to the ground and also can only last, for you know, a couple seconds at best okay, so this is coach Ukai, but he's not their coach yet

08:58

oh, and they're there for the buns, right yeah, yeah, they're for some meat buns and he's telling them to go home and eat a proper meal, but he's not heartless. I love that Tanaka catches that with his teeth. It's fucking hilarious. Oikawa, you should have come to Shiratorizawa, we'll talk about that, okay?

09:16

Oh, and something that we learn about Kageyama is that he's an idiot. Outside of the volleyball court, like on the court, he's a genius, but outside of the volleyball court, like on the court, he's a genius, but outside of the court he is so stupid. Interesting, yeah, it's real, which I think is really fun, because there's a lot of like anime that have, especially shonen anime that have this genius character and like, often they're just good at everything. But I love that he's only good at this one thing, but it's the only thing that matters for him and Hinata, yeah, and their rivalry. So Kageyama. So this part is explaining that Kageyama, the reason he's at Karasuno, is because he wanted to be coached by Yukai gotcha, but that didn't happen oh, shooting star, beautiful, yep, I'm telling you symbology yep, the visual imagery in the show is amazing.

10:02

Okay, so that was season one, episode seven versus the great king.

SJ

10:07

What did you think, SJ I like the great king, I'm into Oikawa wait Oikawa Oikawa's vibe yeah, into Oikawa's vibe, totally get that.

rainbow

10:18

Yeah, the first time I ever watched this show he came on screen and I was like I fucking hate this guy. And then within two seconds I was like wait, do I love him?

SJ

10:26

yeah yeah, yeah and it's, yeah, it's totally a Louise Belcher slap his ugly beautiful face. For sure I get that absolutely love him.

rainbow

10:34

Okay, so you've watched. Now you've watched episode one and you've watched episode seven. So, like, what are your? Do you have, what are your general thoughts on Haikyuu, what you know about it now?

SJ

10:43

It pulls out a lot more emotion within me than I ever expected it to. I'm definitely sports anime curious. Now, for sure I have a few suggestions for you to check out.

rainbow

10:55

The sports anime genre is filled to the brim. I mean, obviously I'm biased. I think Haikyuu is the best of them all. I think Haikyuu focuses on the characters, like emotions, in a way that I don't often see in shounen anime in general, and I just think it's really fun. Do you have any like predictions about what you think might happen later in the show, now that you've seen some of it predictions?

11:22

about like particular characters oh, particular characters, okay yeah yeah, anything about, like what do you think is going to happen with Hinata? What do you think is going to happen with Kageyama?

SJ

11:30

I mean, if I had to guess, I would say that they're only going to become closer and get better and better, and take the team with them, because why else would you have two protagonists that you're focusing on there and in an underdog?

rainbow

11:47

no less too right, but also some brutal losses too yeah, well and listeners, just so you know, we will have a spoiler zone at the end of this episode where I will give SJ all of the tea, and I will let them know a lot about what's going to happen. Yeah, and I guess I wanted to. Before we get further into things, I did want to explain a little bit. So there's a part where Kageyama is talking about what Karasuno still lacks, like what kind of players they lack, and they mentioned the Libro for defense, but they also mentioned an ace spiker, and so we didn't really get into this in the first episode.

12:23

But Hinata wants to be the ace of Karasuno, he's determined to be the ace and that pisses Kageyama off. Kageyama's like you can't even receive the ball and you think you're going to be the ace. Yeah, and so, Kageyama, or Hinata's role on Karasuno is he is a decoy and Kageyama calls him the greatest decoy. He's like, with your quick freak, you are going to like catch the blockers. Attention, so much, they're going to be so focused on you. Our other spikers can get spikes in, which, we see, is true, Tanaka tends to get a lot of spikes in because of Hinata's decoy ability and Hinata who, like, desperately wants a cool nickname like Kageyama is called the king of the court and he doesn't like it. It's a very negative nickname. It means he's like a bad dictator.

13:03

Hinata thinks it's the coolest thing in the world yeah the thing about Hinata is he really hates how much he thinks Kageyama is cool. He thinks Kageyama is the best volleyball player he's ever met. He thinks he's super cool and he's really mad about that because Kageyama is a jerk to him that seems to be like really the only thing that pisses Hinata off.

SJ

13:21

He's just like the sweetest towards everybody else.

rainbow

13:24

Yeah, that's the fun thing about them and that's the thing with Kageyama is. I mean he can be a little rude to Tsukishima, but in general he's very respectful, except for Hinata. Hinata, he's like always kicking his ass. He's always calling him a dumbass, like Hinata bokeh. He really does not Like they. Their dynamic is just so interesting and fun and I think you kind of get to see that, yeah, in the episodes that we watched yeah, just when he's coming, skipping down the hall and immediately sees Kageyama having that conversation with Kindaichi yeah, that was absolutely adorable well, and then my favorite part of that is then when Kageyama walks away and like the focus is on Kindaichi.

13:58

You see in the background Hinata being like oh, did you cry? Yeah, just, and that is something like people talk about. Like, oh, Kageyama is such a bully to Hinata and I'm like it is so mutual, like yeah, yeah, like Hinata gives back, like everything that Kageyama gives him.

SJ

14:13

Yeah, it's harder to see a bratty bully.

rainbow

14:16

Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you have any questions from that episode about things that you didn't understand? relationship or character dynamics you're interested in things you didn't understand? relationship or character dynamics you're interested in?

SJ

14:27

things I didn't understand. I mean, I think, the general I mean here I am butchering names the general, like vibe of most of the players on the carusa, carosino, carosino, roster eyes are still pretty unknown to me I feel, like that gave me a pretty good idea, obviously for Kageyama and Hinata and also Tanaka, yes, Tanaka, um. But I think most of them, like even Daichi, didn't do much, no, he didn't stand out and that's's the thing.

rainbow

15:01

And I think you know I told you earlier about the NPC players that we never really get to learn about and I, you know, I kind of jokingly was like, why aren't you giving us anything about them? And I think it's just because it's you know that's 12 people on Karasuno and you know you can only spend so much time each episode focusing on certain characters and, to be fair to haikyuu, I think they do a really good job of balancing that. but yeah, this, the focus of this episode was definitely Hinata Kageyama Tanaka, like tsukishima's there, but you really didn't get to see his full personality. I, you know, if you ever, if you decide to continue watching, I would love to know your thoughts on tsukishima's introduction, because he is just oh boy, is he, he cunty.

15:44

Em's friend watched the show with her and when they got to that part, the friend was like who's this bitch? Like who's this queen? Yeah, I kind of want to talk about your transitioning away from Haikyuu in particular. What is your relationship to like anime, to cartoons, to this kind of medium? Good?

SJ

16:06

question I, yeah, I love cartoons. I've always watched a lot of cartoons, but very much less so anime.

16:15

I think, anime has come in. Really since I have met my bald-headed bitch and started dating them and like because I feel like the them and like their sisters, like that it was kind of part of their childhood. That wasn't as much mine, honestly. I had more like manga in in my like I've read. I was so into this particular manga called Brave Master and then I read a little bit of the haikyuu manga, but that was a while ago and I pretty much forgot most of that.

rainbow

16:51

Yeah. What animes have you watched now that you've been introduced to it?

SJ

16:55

what have I watched? Or in high school host club I'm here for that. Um bald-headed bitch want to chime in. There was one. What is it called um? It's? It's a like personification of the different cells in the body oh, I've heard cells at work.

rainbow

17:13

Cells at work, yes, yeah, I've heard of that one, but I haven't watched that, is that good I liked it okay.

SJ

17:18

Yeah, because I is like osmosis jones type, vibes, yeah, yeah, absolutely man.

rainbow

17:25

Other animes yeah, I'm a novice, obviously, but I've I I consume a ton of cartoons, for sure yeah, I know, like you, when oh and just for context listeners em and I lived with SJ and his partner, before we moved into this current apartment, so you introduced me to being Puppycat. Yeah, I know that you are a big fan of Adventure Time I mean Bob's Burgers was constantly on our television.

SJ

17:56

That's a go to. Yeah, we recently finished Steven Universe.

rainbow

18:01

Yeah, what Listeners. I didn't know this. I didn't even know you were watching this. There will be an off mic discussion. I don't know. I know you. It's a good thing you said you don't have any plans after this, because I will be holding you hostage in this apartment, so we can talk about that oh my gosh okay, and then next time we're all together with m, we have to talk about it. Oh my god, steven Universe okay yeah, steven Universe man have you watched She-Ra and the Princesses of Power?

SJ

18:30

no, no, not yet, but She-Ra, that's definitely on there. Yeah, on our list. Gotta love those alien lesbians. Gotta love alien lesbians. Yes, that's what I'm here for. That is what Steven Universe introduced into my life all right.

rainbow

18:44

So cartoons. So a novice to anime love that, and so it sounds like based on watching. That's what I'm here for. That is what Steven Universe introduced into my life. All right, so cartoons. So a novice to anime Love that, and so it sounds like based on watching Haikyuu.

SJ

18:51

You're a little bit interested in, like the sports anime genre, yeah, and then you've watched Ouran High School Host Club, and that's more shoujo anime.

rainbow

18:57

So are you interested also in exploring more in that field?

SJ

19:01

I think so, I mean so. I mean I'm here for any type of queer media, for sure that one is so much, at least with the sports anime, I have like like a touchstone or a context yes, exactly, touchstone, a background, like a general understanding, because I think just the general anime style storytelling as well as, honestly, most like this is how I first felt when I was watching Ghibli movies too, like the story structure is just kind of different from western media than I have consumed, and watching that shoujo is like I feel much more out of sorts. You know, I don't have like a grounding yeah, so there is.

rainbow

19:41

In the west we typically use like a three-act structure for things, and in the east I think there's a lot of different ones. But the story structure I'm most familiar with is called Kito Tenketsu, no Kito Tenketsu, and it is a four-act storytelling structure that involves introducing you to the characters and the setting in the world. Building on that introduction, a twist that happens that completely changes everything, and then in the fourth act you have like the results of that twist. So I took like a structure class, like a storytelling structure class where we talked about the movie parasite. Have you seen that? Yeah, okay, and so that movie is a really great example of that, because you have the introduction of the two families, then the two families are integrating, you're getting to know them, and then there's the twist of you find the man in the basement and then you have just the chaos of the final act yeah.

20:36

And so I do think it's very interesting that you bring up that it's so very different and I think when I was younger and I was getting into anime, when I was like in middle school, for one thing I was younger so I probably didn't have the ingrained like western storytelling structures as deep inside of me, but it is like it just feels different.

SJ

20:53

I think you've really touched on the fact that it is like the structure is just so wildly different than anything we're used to yeah, I think that is definitely the thing that has struck me the most in general in consuming anime, and also just the such wildly different cultures makes for wildly different material and content yeah, the humor is very different.

rainbow

21:17

I still find it very funny. Like I think oran high school host club is one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. it's fantastic. I will one day do a podcast about ouran high school host club listeners, I promise you that.

SJ

21:29

Um and the the emotion. Like you, you mentioned emotion of haikyuu, but, I remember when I was first even rating manga and just the way that emotions are depicted in anime are such more so, much more intense and over overdone as compared to emotion and literally any style of like western storytelling.

rainbow

21:52

Well, and I think you can really see the influence of anime on our modern western cartoons like avatar. The last airbender is, of course, I think, the first example that comes to mind when you think of an anime style like american tv show. But even I think you, speaking of Steven Universe, I think a lot of the ways that, like Steven, shows him, a lot of the way that all of the characters show emotion, feels very reminiscent of anime, and I found that to be the case with She-Ra as well, because, you know, I think now we have people who are more our age, you know, we're, you know, in our late 20s, early 30s kind of thing, and I think more people our age are making shows and those are people who watched Ghibli movies and they grew up on, you know, sailor Moon and the kind of you know they had Toonami on Cartoon Network kind of thing. And I love to see the influence that anime has had, because, I mean, anime in Japan is just like it's huge, huge and it made it here.

22:47

It started coming over here in the 80s and a little bit in the 90s, but I think it was really in the 2000s when it started to blow up, like it was like in the 90s, like people would get, like you'd have to like find like VHS tapes that somebody had like brought with them from Japan nice yeah. And even like when I was a kid watching anime, like I watched Ouran High School Host Club on youtube I had to find like I would look up like oran high school host club, episode one, part one, and they would split them into three parts and then you had to find all the different parts. but now you can just go on like hulu yeah, and watch the golden days of youtube oh, the days of youtube.

SJ

23:20

So you know kids these days be grateful yeah you, you got it easy All the content at your fingertips.

rainbow

23:26

All the time you don't have to rewind a single VHS tape.

23:29

Yeah, do you even know what a VCR is? I know some of you listeners are out there, you know. Okay, yeah, so you know, I told you before we watched the first episode of Haikyuu that I think it's the gayest episode and I think you were kind of, I think you we talked earlier about how there's like a general like homosexual tone to a lot of it. So you know, moving outside of Haikyuu, I want to talk about queer representation, both like like in text, like purposeful queer representation, like in Steven Universe, versus like the subtext, like homoerotic subtext that people find and have you, you know, growing up and watching any shows, or even as like a teenager, as an adult, was there anything you watched where you kind of felt like, oh, this is gay, but it wasn't explicitly gay?

SJ

24:17

well, that's a good question, because I was a closeted gay kid for so long, so I think that I feared most things were gay. Oh, okay you were.

rainbow

24:28

You were afraid it was gay and that you were picking up on it, and that meant something about who you were exactly exactly.

SJ

24:34

That's fair. Nothing I can point to specifically, but I remember like I like Spongebob is another like that's one of those cartoons that I think we all grew up on and I remember a lot of my friends talking about how spongebob and patrick are actually a gay couple like there was that type of thing and you were like, oh, I don't, I don't see that.

rainbow

24:52

What are you talking about? Yeah, I don't see gayness anywhere, ever not in the mirror.

SJ

24:56

Gross a sponge and a starfish. What are you talking about?

rainbow

25:01

I'm not interested in that at all. I personally am a spongebob, squidward shipper, I think a squidward is for sure a homosexual man no doubt about it.

25:10

Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of queerness in there, I guess. Is there anything, that you watched as a kid, that as an adult, as a queer adult who's accepted who you are? Yeah, is there anything? Looking back, where you're like, oh, you know, oh, that was kind of gay because, like I know, I look back at things and I'm like, oh, I think one of the reasons I felt so connected to this is because I was seeing a part of myself that I couldn't even I couldn't even name, like Naruto and Sasuke. I was so into Naruto and I was so into them specifically, and I would like look up fan art, and I didn't really understand why it was so compelling to me, but it was.

SJ

25:42

Yeah, it's okay if the answer is no, not everyone, I mean I don't know how much of them really are, really are like cartoon, like I don't know. Do you remember bend it like beckham? Oh, I mean, that's not even subtext. Yeah, like there is a very strong like lesbian content in that, and plus the soccer and I was like a lesbian soccer player for a very long time in my life and I think that tickled something in me for very like very deeply very long ago. That terrified me but also deeply interested me.

rainbow

26:20

Yeah, well, we and we can move outside of cartoons. I want to talk about media in general, and not just even tv, or like we can talk about movies. We can talk about books, anything that comes to mind. You know, like, the matrix is something that like as a kid I didn't realize, like it was just kind of a scary sci-fi thing. But then you watch it, you know with all the context and all of the think pieces about it, and you're like, oh, this is definitely a trans oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, especially after transitioning.

SJ

26:44

Like I think I first watched that and I was like this is an allegory for capitalism and the way that it's destroying our world, and I I'm just like an ardent anti-capitalist in that way. But once I started transitioning and went through that and watched it, I was like, oh man, yeah, yeah well, and I think, I think both things are happening there, I think there is still a lot of anti-capitalism and I just think that happens a lot with queer media, where it also there tends to be an anti-capitalist bend to it.

rainbow

27:13

I think it's, yeah, it's interesting. But one thing I love about one of my favorite like trivia pieces about the matrix is the character switch was supposed to be one gender in the matrix and another gender out in the real world. Yeah, and they wouldn't let that happen. I think that was too overt for the studios, but I do love that yeah, and I mean I.

SJ

27:38

This is just because my brain isn't good at holding on to media that I read, but like I saw the TV glow you know, that's. That's like a movie that I've watched this year. That is just like banger queer and trans representation. But I really think that there are plenty of like cis het folk out there who would watch that and not understand much about what that movie is trying to say yeah, absolutely.

rainbow

28:06

There's so kind of when you, when we talk about, like, queer theory and we talk about queer analysis, there are people who, like you, can do queer readings of a lot of things, like I've seen queer readings of American Psycho.

28:18

I've seen queer readings of you know, a lot of Fight Club, the Lost Boys. There's lots of stuff that you can look at through a queer lens. And you know, when I was younger and like I, you know I was a shipper and I recognized that and like I, but I didn't realize, the reason that I liked it so much is because it felt like representation to me, I think, just as queer people who don't get to see themselves represented in media, even like there's obviously way more today, but I think there's still an issue and we see this with representation in general where, like, the studios have gotten the message of like, oh, they want to see more black characters, they want to see more queer characters, they want to see more indigenous characters, but the stories are still being told by white, cisgender, heterosexual men, and so it does tend to come off as like, well, this isn't what I would do. I watched the movie Prey last night.

29:08

It's one of the predator movies oh, okay, I've heard of it, I've not seen it it is so, so good and I was like, honestly, really impressed that it was written and directed by a white guy, but then, of course, there are a few things where, like looking back on it, I like listened to a podcast about it and I was like, oh, that's where the white guy was coming in, and you know, I feel that way about the movie Barbarian. I was shocked that was made by a man. It's like surely a woman wrote this, but it's, you know, it's like I, men are capable of empathy and they are capable of putting themselves in other people's shoes, but it's still. The fact is, I feel the same way about, like, straight actors playing gay characters, where it's like, listen, if we didn't have homophobia and we didn't have a lack of representation and we didn't have a problem with gay actors getting jobs, I wouldn't care that much. Yeah, it'd be different. It'd be different. Yeah, it's the structures and the institutions that we have in place.

29:56

So, like when, you know, when I hear a straight actor being like, I'm so mad that I can't play gay characters, and I'm like what you should do is fight against the system that makes it harder for gay people to get roles and to get work, and you should be fighting against a system that allows representation to you, should you know, you should be fighting against the barriers to your gay tropes and the you know, the dead lesbian trope yeah that's what you should be doing, instead of just being like well, I should get to play a gay character because I think that's a really fun role for me and it's like well, you already have the privilege of getting to play whoever you want, so maybe you should sit back, yeah and let other people see exactly.

30:28

The only person who's allowed to do is neil patrick harris yeah, yeah, yeah, neil patrick harris can do whatever he wants, because he's a passing gay man, he's a, he's a white cis guy.

SJ

30:38

Yeah, thinking back on it, I think a lot of the hyper masculine, a lot of hyper masculine media has always read pretty queer to me too, mm-hmm, because that is just kind of where, really, I do think, the root of hyper-masculinity comes from.

rainbow

30:53

Is the like fighting against homosexuality. Yeah, Either a fear of it.

SJ

30:56

And then you know, you just produce so much hyper-masculine media that eventually people are like you know that's gay. You know like watching 300 as a kid, yeah, like what is this? And why aren't more buttholes involved?

rainbow

31:11

No, exactly, yeah, and I think I think that's a really really good point and I think kind of one of the things with shipping, I think one of the reasons it's so easy to watch these kinds of anime where it's like written, you know, I think, assumed by men. I don't know if we have like confirmation that Furudate like uses he him sometimes with mangaka. That's like who they are as a person is very like hidden.

31:36

yeah they're kind of they're not super public figures, but I think Furudate, I think, is a man and I think has like said that he doesn't feel comfortable writing women. He just doesn't like get it as well. And I think that's another piece of the puzzle is you're writing these like hyper masculine stories but you don't know how to write women, you don't know how to write girls and you don't know how to write romance between the two. And so even if you give us a romance like I look at Naruto, where, like at the, you know everybody gets paired up heterosexually but it it's like you didn't really do the job of building that relationship. The relationship you built is between these two male characters who are so intertwined.

32:15

And I think when we talk about love, I think often we talk about love in a romantic sense and I don't like that. That word always kind of means romantically, because I do think you can have love outside of romance and it can be just as powerful, and I've said this before on the podcast. But one of the reasons I love Haikyuu is, even taking away the, the sexual tension and the shipping and the gay aspect of it, I think Haikyuu, at the end of the day, is still a love story between Hinata and Kageyama. It's love that they find through rivalry, and we'll talk about it a little bit more in the spoiler zone, but like they do love each other very deeply, and I think you see that. And then, but for me, as somebody who doesn't get to see queer representation, I'm like, okay, well, I want that love to be gay, because I want to see more gay people. Yeah, and that's when fan fiction comes in. And you know, speaking of fan fiction, have you? Have you dipped, dipped your toes in that world at all?

SJ

33:05

I went on a little like bubble gum and Marceline kick for a little while when I was in that adventure zone, adventure time zone, I think that's really that's like about it, and I remember talking to you about that and like learning how to navigate fanfic yeah, like navigating AO3 looking at tags and everything and all that yeah well, I mean, I get it.

rainbow

33:31

Haiku was my introduction to fan fiction. I kind of turned my nose up at it when I was younger. I thought I was too highbrow or some bullshit for that. But then watching haiku, haiku just really like sent me over the edge because I was like I just I know they're never gonna kiss and I really need them to kiss, yeah, and so that's why I started reading fan fiction because you got the, because it just felt like we were getting this, like we're getting this buildup of tension. But it never boiled over. And I think there are plenty of people out there who don't see the queerness at all. they don't see it as queer like. I know that there are people out there who there's you know other podcasts that talk about it is like they just see them as friends and as teammates and as rivals, and I think that's perfectly. That's a perfectly valid reading. I think that makes a lot of sense. It's just not how I'm gonna look at it, yeah, that's.

SJ

34:17

That's totally fair. And, as someone who was on teams and fucked teammates, yeah, it's always a little bit gay and that's okay, it doesn't.

rainbow

34:28

You're going to war with these people like you don't need to totally think of them purely as platonic, you know yeah, and that's kind of something I'd like to discuss because, like shonen anime, so sports anime is part of the shonen genre. And another thing you see a lot in shonen anime are like battle animes like naruto, jujutsu, kaisen, bungo, stray dogs, where it's a lot of shonen anime are like battle animes like naruto, jujitsu, kaisen, bungo, stray dogs, where it's a lot of fighting. So what do you think about? Like you know, do you have any general thoughts on like sports and, like how they relate to the world, how and and maybe particularly how like men use sports to relate to the world or explore their feelings? Any thoughts in that general direction?

SJ

35:07

oh yeah, lots of thoughts.

35:09

I mean, I am someone who like being in sports at a young age like saved my life, but also maybe allowed me to put off a lot of the gay trans stuff about me for longer you know, there's like a little bit of both, because the reality is, you know, like coming up in a cishet culture is it is what it is and we find our outlets for that and sometimes those outlets allow you to like continue to find your way in that world longer than you might have otherwise if you were kind of just really never found that type of community. but yeah, I mean, I think it's like it's such a trope and it's so real that some of the gayest shit that dudes do are with their teammates and like in the height of competition or after con or like games and stuff like that yeah, I think we see it a lot in haikyuu where, like, we see them crying over the.

rainbow

36:06

You know, if they lose a game, sometimes they cry if they win. You know, in the first episode we see Hinata crying as he makes this declaration to Kageyama that he will be the one who stands on the court the longest. And I think sports give men permission to feel feelings other than anger in a way, and express those feelings in a way that they're not allowed to under patriarchy. Does that?

SJ

36:30

yeah, yeah, I yeah, that definitely resonates with me. I would say, yeah, some of the most expressive times I've seen men are on sports fields and some of the most like genuine relationships that I've seen men make are in those scenarios too. I think, yeah, I think patriarchy isolates and alienates men in a big way, and sports is, yeah, it's for many things. It's like, like I said, I really do appreciate a lot of the lessons that sports gave me playing it growing up.

37:06

But I think it really does just kind of gives one a community to get through. And I mean, you know, sports really ultimately is something we can only do for so many years. So it really does feel like it's something that we can like get through the beginning of life. But then I don't know, you like look at all these fandom, like the sports fandoms that exist, and I think that is like that's also like men expressing emoting, whether they're fans or actually the players of the sports too.

rainbow

37:37

I love that you call it fandoms. I think that's something. I've seen that a lot online too. I think that's something we're kind of starting to point out as a culture. I think especially as like the fandoms that traditionally like women, are involved with, like you know, like being super into like boy bands or a particular pop star or something like. That's kind of a fandom. Or like us queers with our like fan, like nerdy fandoms where like.

37:59

I feel like there's this idea that like sports is like this, like no, this is, this is normal, this is acceptable this is a genre and it's like well, no, you're doing the same things that we're doing, except actually, when our team wins or loses. We're not setting cars on fire in the street, so maybe we could talk about the toxicity in sports. Before you come at me for my little gay shipping.

SJ

38:20

Yes, yeah, yeah. No, exactly, I think it classifies as a fandom just because it's more accepted, just because there's a whole TV network based around this stuff and because it's surrounding men and things that men want to do are, okay, patriarchy.

rainbow

38:38

because of patriarchy, the things that cis men want to do, I should say yes, yeah, yeah, let's. Let's really cis het men, they can do whatever they want. Cis gay men a little bit sometimes a little bit, I think you're on thin ice, though yeah, yeah your assimilation will not save you.

38:56

are you ready to do our little who and haikyuu scenario? Okay, yeah, let's do it. Okay. And so we're doing adventure time because, as you mentioned, they have been in that fandom, and so we can just talk about the characters that we you kind of got to know a little bit. We'll keep it small. So, Hinata, Kageyama, Oikawa, maybe Tanaka. Is there anybody else you want to throw in there?

SJ

39:18

Maybe

39:19

Daichi, I just yeah, I just love a strong captain Daichi's great Daichi is like the best captain of them all, and we love him so much. Okay, yeah. So so those those five Hinata Kageyama, Tanaka, Daichi, Oikawa. So if they were to, if we were to like merge adventure time and haikyuu like, which characters would they be like? Who would be the finn?

SJ

39:42

of those five? I know that's a good question would it be Hinata?

rainbow

39:46

Hinata, like, is always giving main character. We usually give him the main character, but do you think he would be the finn?

SJ

39:52

honestly no, I think. I think that Kageyama would be finn. I think Hinata would be jake. Okay, I mean fin. Finn and Jake have a wildly different relationship and also don't quite express anger at each other in the same way. But I find Finn. Well, that's tough actually, Okay. So I think that, okay, I think I find Finn a little bit moodier and Jake is more happy-go-lucky.

rainbow

40:18

And that makes a lot of sense for Kageyama and Hinata.

SJ

40:20

Yes, yeah, I totally see that lucky and that makes a lot of sense. Yes, yeah, I totally see that. Who would be bubble gum?

rainbow

40:27

I think that's Daichi, because I I have a bubble gum is so grounded really is a voice of reason for most of that show that makes sense and actually I don't think I got to mention this earlier, but Daichi's name, like part of his name, is like there's like very much earth involved with it. He is like a grounding presence. Yeah, very much, okay. would anyone be Marceline?

SJ

40:44

let's see well if Daichi is bubble gum.

rainbow

40:49

I was kind of thinking Oikawa sounds like seems like more of a Marceline yeah, especially with, like.

SJ

40:56

When you first meet Marceline in that episode with Finn, where she like takes over the treehouse, she's like actually this is my house yeah, and is kind of a troll in a little bit of a way, and I feel like and she has a lot of abilities that she likes to use to fuck with people and I feel like Oyakawa, at least in that little clip that we saw, was like definitely playing every single one of those guys yeah, he, that gets talked about a lot with him where he is like, and it makes him a really good strategist because he can like really figure out how to fuck with people on the court.

rainbow

41:28

That's something with seijo. When they play karasuno it's always like seijo always knows how to adapt to us so quickly yeah and that's because of Oikawa. And they also say that he brings out as a setter, he brings out the best in every spiker that he plays with yeah, well, Kageyama could learn something from that you know, and you know that, and Kageyama knows that, and it's one of his greatest issues is that he feels like he'll never be as good as Oikawa, but it's okay because Hinata believes in him.

41:53

And also, I was gonna say, when it comes to shipping, we ship Daichi with like all of the captains too, so okay okay, I was gonna say and it doesn't have to be necessarily related to the shipping. It can just be about, like the character themselves and then I think, we said Tanaka.

42:06

So do you think who do you think he would be? Honestly, and here's the thing I don't want to say he's the ice king, because that's really mean. But Tanaka is Tanaka, Noya are the two like girl crazy characters yeah yeah, and like honestly, it's like I would not be surprised if Tanaka was going around kidnapping princesses and trying to marry them.

SJ

42:25

Yep, Kidnapping pieces of princesses and sewing them together for his Frankenstein bride.

rainbow

42:30

Oh man, that's so lovely, but is there anyone else other than the Ice King you can think of?

SJ

42:35

Let's see, I don't. I feel I didn't get like a stellar idea of Tanaka, but I do like how Tanaka kind of at least in the episode, was kind of tagging along with Finn and Jake, and so that's definitely a BMO vibe.

rainbow

42:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally see a BMO.

SJ

42:52

Yeah, a little bit of like a blind innocence, just going along with the vibe.

rainbow

42:58

Yeah, yeah, I see that for him yeah.

43:01

All right. Well, that's it for every, the world's favorite game, who and iq that's what we call it. we are going to move into a spoiler zone so I can tell SJ all of the tea about what happens and one of the you know, I can talk about why I think iq is a love story. but before we do that, I just want to let anyone who might be leaving us now, I want to let you know that you can follow us on Twitter, instagram, tumblr and Blue Sky, flyhqpod F-L-Y-H-Q-P-O-D. You can also send us an email. If you want to talk to us, please send us an email. We love reading all of your thoughts and feelings and you can send us that email at flyhqpod. At gmailcom that's F-L-Y-h-q-p-o-d. At gmailcom. And now you're approaching a door and you hear noise in the background. You walk through and it's the spoiler zone. We do a little, a little fun thing every season. Hi, I want to tell you, okay, about Kageyama Tobio. Yes, so Kageyama Tobio, and we learn all of this at the very end of the manga. It's like chapter like 385 or something, and there's a time skip.

44:08

Most of the manga is about Hinata and Kageyama's first year and they go to nationals and they make it to the quarterfinals. They beat a lot of amazing teams. They have their garbage of the battle dump with Nekoma. They're like big rivals I told you about. And then they play a game and it's the quarterfinals. They're like big rivals I told you about, and then they play a game and it's the quarterfinals. They're playing against another character who is very much like the tiny giant. He is like what Hinata wants to be. He's short, but he's very powerful. He's good at spiking, he's got all the skills that Hinata still is working on. And in that game, Hinata comes down with a fever because he overworked himself and if you remember the, in the very first episode, Kageyama calls him out for not being physically ready.

44:46

Yeah, and so Kageyama's whole thing is like you have to learn to take care of yourself. And Hinata doesn't, and he gets this fever and he has to leave the game and it's like, honestly, I cry every time I read it. It's so heartbreaking. One day they're gonna animate it and I'm not going to be okay. It's really.

45:01

He's just crying and and Takeda like tells him he's like you know, learning to take care of yourself. He's like this is volleyball too. It's not just and and he not just starts out thinking he wants to be the ace, the only thing he needs to do is spike. And then he learns like, no, I actually have to learn how to receive. No, I actually have to learn how to serve, I need to learn how to block, I need to learn all these different skills. And he doesn't quite realize that taking care of your body is one of those skills, and that's something I really appreciate about this particular sports anime is it's not about the sport, is not about driving yourself till you're like bleeding and dead on the ground, like and coach Ukai that's a big part about him, or a big part of his character is saying like, eat a proper meal he gives like a big speech after their first big loss at the end of season one, where he says you know, you worked really hard.

45:41

Today, your muscles are torn and shredded and you need to rebuild them. And you rebuild them by eating good food. So fill yourselves up, rebuild your muscles and we'll come back fighting stronger. And so Hinata gets a fever, emotional, hthat makes me emotional. It should, it should, and so and in the manga. So Hinata gets this fever, he has to be sent off the court. And Kageyama says to him he says this time I win again. And Hinata, before that moment, is crying. He's so upset, he doesn't want to leave. He's like no, I want to stay, I want to keep playing, I don't care that I have a fever, like, I want to be on this court. And then Kageyama says that to him and Hinata like stops crying. He turns to him. They look, they like lock eyes with each other and Hinata like understands. He's like like, okay, you're right, I need to take care of myself. And so after that, we get a time skip.

46:24

Hinata goes to Brazil, he goes to Rio de Janeiro. That's why that's shown. Okay, okay, he goes to Rio to play beach volleyball. Because he realizes it, because when you play beach volleyball, you're playing two on two, yeah, so you have to be able to do everything, yeah, and also the sand is really Also jumping on sand, yeah, yeah. So he goes and he's, so it's it's three. The time skip is about three years, so he spends a year in japan preparing. He doesn't go to college. Kageyama and Hinata do not go to college. They go Hinata goes to brazil, Kageyama goes straight into playing professional. He plays on a division one japan v league team, okay, and so he is, he's playing, playing. He goes to the Olympics and it's the Rio Olympics, and so Hinata is there and he's training and he's working and Kageyama is at the Olympics.

47:08

And something I we didn't get to see is there is a scene in season one where Hinata says he's like I'm going to beat you, Kageyama, like I'm going to be the one who's, no matter how far you go'm gonna be better than you. And Kageyama says he says okay, he's like, even if it means being on the world stage. And Hinata's like what he's like, yeah, yeah, it is. And the Kageyama is like okay, this is the first step towards our goal, towards that goal. And so for Hinata watching Kageyama. There's a scene of Hinata that's very reminiscent of the very first scene, where Hinata sees like the little giant on screen. And so Hinata is watching Kageyama play in the Olympics and he's watching Kageyama meet his goal and, like Hinata knows he isn't there yet but he keeps working hard he makes a name for himself in Brazil's beach volleyball scene.

47:54

He becomes known as Ninja Shoyo. He runs into Oikawa who, after he graduated high school, he leaves Japan and goes to argentina and joins their national team because he's got this like. He's got this like hero that he met, that he watched play, who's from argentina, who's an amazing setter. And Oikawa's whole thing is that he doesn't feel like he's as good as Kageyama, but Kageyama is considered a genius setter and Oikawa feels very inferior to him. And Oikawa gets a chance to meet this argentina player and the guy says to him he's like, if you think that you're not going to be good enough because you weren't born with the talent, then you should stop right now. He's like, because the only way you get that kind of talent is by working really hard. Yeah, and Oikawa is a hard worker. He, you know. The reason he's late to the game against karasuno is because he hurt his ankle, because he overworked himself. And so Oikawa and Hinata meet up in brazil and they become little friends. It's very cute, in the fandom, with everybody thinks they fucked um. And it's really funny because, like they take a selfie and send it to Kageyama and Kageyama's like what the fuck um? So, Hinata does really really good in brazil. He becomes ninja shoujo and then he comes back to Japan and he joins the MSBY Adlers. Nope, he joins the MSBY Jackals.

49:08

Kageyama is on the Adlers and Kageyama has been playing on the Adlers for like three years. There's like another character who we don't have time to get into. There's many other characters we don't have time to get into, but the important thing is that Kageyama is playing on the Adlers, Hinata is playing on the Jackals and Hinata, like, comes back from Brazil and his like friend, one of his friends, is talking to him. He's like so what team are you gonna join? He's like I'm just looking. Forever has open tryouts and I'm gonna try out. And he tries out for the Jackals. He gets on the team and he becomes what's called an opposite hitter, and the opposite hitter is like they are the most versatile player, they are an expert in defense and offense. They can help block, they can do an emergency set if they need to.

49:46

Like, Hinata comes back and his very first professional game is against Kageyama. It is the MSBY Adler's game. It is Kageyama versus Hinata. It is so fucking good. It is like one of the best things that has ever happened. If they don't fucking animate it, I'm gonna be so pissed like the way, if they don't animate the jack adler's game, I'm gonna become rich just so I can pay for somebody to do it.

50:13

Yeah, so we're watching this game and Kageyama and they have this. Like there's a lot of with haikyuu, there's a lot of Hinata running into people in front of bathrooms. as you saw from just the two episodes we watched, it happens all the time. Like every rival he's ever met, he's met in a bathroom and they like run into each other in front of the bathroom and they're like it's like do you want to arm wrestle? And he's like no, let's wait till later. hot, right, I'm gonna. I'll show you pages later. so we so we're playing this game and Hinata's doing really good. So, Kageyama, who has an amazing serve. The game starts off, Kageyama serves it and it's really intense and Hinata receives it and it's a clean receive. It's really good and he's like but he, like, he takes a knee to receive the ball. He ends up having to like go down on one knee to get it because the serve is just so powerful.

50:59

He's like damn, I was trying to get it without having to go down on my knees, and everyone's like what you were trying to hit, that and like. And, by the way, everyone is like everyone from karasuno comes to watch this game. It happens in miyagi like all, almost every. Every senpai comes, like the coaches, their old coaches have brought their team to watch this game. like it's it's a really wonderful time of everyone coming back together and getting to see Hinata like be amazing.

51:24

And then he does a, he does their their special like freak quick. He's able to do it with the setter on the jackals and so he does that. he does his spike, he gets the ball and he lands and he says I'm home or I'm here. He says I'm here, which is something he said to Kageyama. like very early on when they were like developing the freak quick. Kageyama's whole trauma is that like nobody was there to spike the ball for him and Hinata says well, I'm here now. That was in middle school, now it's high school and I'm here to hit your set.

51:54

And he does it's this, I'm here, moment, and that's like one of the gayest things they like you know, it's like Hinata's going for a spike and he's like I'm here and like you see Kageyama, like Hinata's reflection Kageyama's eyes, and he's like, okay, I'm gonna set to you. And it's just like this beautiful moment, Hinata does this spike, he lands and he says I'm here. And that means so many things. It means I'm here, I'm on this professional team, I'm here, Kageyama, battling against you. Everyone in the crowd, like all of his old team members, they shout welcome home. And everyone else in the crowd is so confused they're like who is this guy? And then we, we see a panel of Kageyama and he like says to himself he's like took you long enough oh my god.

SJ

52:30

Yeah, I know SJ is like queuing up right now and I understand talking about giving men space to get emotional, I was yeah, yeah, it's so touching, so happy that you're reacting, so they have.

rainbow

52:42

And a lot of stuff happens during this game. We get to like kind of it yeah, it's so touching, I'm so happy that you're reacting this way, so they have and a lot of stuff happens during this game. We get to like kind of it's, it's really fun. We get to kind of see where, like, all of the characters are at, like every single character who's had any like line of dialogue. We get to see. We get a little card that tells us like what their job is like, if they're, you know, if some of them do go on to play professional volleyball. Some are in like Division 3. Some are in Division 2. Some are in Division 1, like Kagehina.

SJ

53:05

Does Tsukishima become a doctor or something?

rainbow

53:08

No, so he actually he becomes. He like works at a museum like a, like a historian, but he also plays volleyball. He's on a Division 2 team Okay, nice, and that's very significant for him. We finally get to learn Kageyama's backstory and we learn we start when he's a little teeny baby and he has like, and his sister plays volleyball and he's like he wants to hold on to the volleyball. It's clear he loves volleyball from the very beginning and we meet his grandfather, kazuyo, who is like the coach of like an elementary school team and like coaches Kageyama and like you can tell that they have a beautiful like relationship. Like he really looks up to his grandfather, his grandfather really understands him. Like you see Kageyama like other he, all he cares about is volleyball.

53:49

Like he's it's very much giving autism and the only thing like this is his special interest, like he doesn't care about video games, he doesn't care about anything and he really loves volleyball and they're he's like probably like eight years old and he's playing this game and he's going up to serve and the serve messes up and, you know, he doesn't seem that upset about it. But after the game his grandfather is talking to him. He's like hey, it looks like maybe you held back on that serve and Kageyama was like well, the, you know, the game was almost over and if I had gotten that point, the game would have ended and we wouldn't be able to play anymore. And all I want to do is play volleyball. And his grandfather says he's like you know what? I understand that, but you know, if you're not trying your best, then you're not going to be able to play more. Like they, like you have to do your best so that you can play.

54:30

Even you know better players. And he says someday, if you're really good, someone even better will come and find you, and that person is Hinata. Hinata, is Kageyama someone better? Yeah, and I think you see it from the very beginning. I think something in Kageyama recognizes that Hinata could be as someone better. I think that's why he's staring at him the whole time in that first game. Yeah, I think that's why he asked him what have you been doing?

54:54

these last three years. All he wants is he wants a rival. He wants somebody to be on his level. He wants someone who's constantly going to push him, and he has never really had that. That's why he's so frustrated with his team members one of the reasons he's so frustrated with them, he's like they can't keep up with him.

55:11

But Hinata is somebody who could, yeah, so that's, that's the somebody better. And so we, you know, we have Kageyama's grandfather and then we see we get a few pages where we learn, you know Kageyama's grandfather, he, you know, Kageyama joins middle school and he's really excited. Middle school, six or first year, kind of like sixth grade, like first year of middle school Kageyama Tobio is really adorable. He's just like really bright-eyed, he's kind of like, he's very like, he just he's like very like. He's just a tiny baby and you can just tell that he's just excited to play volleyball.

55:42

And his grandfather gets sick and is in the hospital and he dies and Kageyama gets very angry. One of the big reasons he's such an angry asshole in that first episode is because and we don't know exactly when his grandfather died, but it's clear it was probably in first or second year of middle school know exactly when his grandfather died, but it's clear it was probably in like first or second year of middle school, yeah, and so when Kageyama meets Hinata, he is the most alone he has ever been in his entire life and I always say that they were both very alone until they found each other, because he Hinata never had anyone to play volleyball with. We see he has friends. He never has anyone to play, yeah, with Kageyama, has people to play with, for the most part, but he doesn't really have any friends. And then his team turns his, turns their backs on him and he doesn't have anybody. But with he, when Hinata and Kageyama are together, they always have somebody to play volleyball with.

56:34

Yeah, and so, and we, we get to see I'll show you the manga panel where we get to see it's Hinata and Kageyama playing and they are just feral. They are making like such like direct eye contact. They are like grinning, they look like they want to tear each other's throats out, they're so intense.

SJ

56:53

That's when it's good.

rainbow

56:54

Yeah, they're really intense about this. Like it looks like it looks like at any minute one of them will like cross and like tear the other one's heart out of their chest. And Hinata and Kagama is thinking about like all of the great players he's gotten to play against and he's hearing his grandfather's words in his head and you're seeing Oikawa Ushijima, a bunch of these characters that we've gotten to see. And it's like you know, if you're really good, you'll get to play other really good players. If you're really good, you'll get to play real other really good players. And then, if you're really good someday and you flip and it's Hinata and the words someone even better will come and find you. And if you think that's not a love story, like if that just isn't a big fat metaphor yeah, like it is just, and that's why Kage, that's why kagehina is so compelling to me.

57:43

Like I, I was in. I was like I was totally on board with kagehina from the first episode. The first time I ever watched haikyuu 10 minutes. And they're yelling at each other in front of this bathroom and I'm like they want to kiss, right, yeah, obviously they want to kiss. And then I was in it from the whole time and I'm like, oh, this is so gay, this is so fun. And then I read this manga and I get to that and I'm crying tears running down my face. I can't believe this story. And like hearing about Kageyama's backstory and like knowing that like he is so sad and like so hurt and he is like clearly grieving the death of the person who meant the most to him and Hinata like kind of takes that place of that person who like will talk about volleyball with him and will watch volleyball with him and accepts him for who he is, and doesn't try to change him in any way. Yeah, and baby, that's haikyuu.

SJ

58:32

That's what happens what are you thinking? I love that, I mean yeah, fighting in front of bathrooms, like I love that there's so much bathroom imagery, because a lot of stuff goes down in bathrooms, right, like anybody can hook up in a bathroom, you know.

rainbow

58:47

But like that final panel, that's like yeah, that's like love, that's not just like yeah and that's not the fine, I will say so, the very so that the oh and Hinata's team wins that game against Kageyama, and I will say so in the first episode. The game against between Kageyama and Hinata only last 31 minutes and the game that Hinata and Kageyama play. So in professional volleyball you play five sets instead of three and Hinata's team wins three to one. So you have the repetition of the three, one which Gotcha, which I love, and so Hinata wins. And he wins by being a decoy, because his whole thing is he wants to be the ace and he hates being the greatest decoy. He thinks it's lame, it's stupid. By the time we get to the time skip, he has fully accepted it, like he is the greatest decoy and he wins by being a decoy and he, specifically, is a decoy. He tricks Kageyama. Kageyama goes to block him and somebody else hits it. Their team wins. Hinata is celebrating. He's so excited, everyone in the stands is so excited for him. Kageyama is like biting back a smile. He's so excited. He's so happy that Hinata, he won and he kept his promise. Yeah, he kept his promise. Yeah, he kept the promise that he makes in the first episode that, like I, will be the one who stands on the court longer, I will beat you. And he keeps his promise to stand on the world stage because we see in 2021, the 2020 tokyo olympics. Hinata, Kageyama and a bunch of our other people that we've met, they are playing and they're playing. We see them play a game against argentina and the setter is Oikawa, who has who like in the process of living in argentina, got citizenship and is playing on the argentina team. So it's Oikawa versus all of the all team, japan and Hinata and Kageyama, and, and Oikawa serves, and it's really intense. Somebody, somebody receives it and Kageyama do their freak quick at the olympics and they score a point and they do a, they do a fist bump. It's pretty amazing. I'm going to show you all these manga panels. And then we flip. We flip to a couple years after that and Hinata and Kageyama are both playing on international teams. Hinata is playing for a team in Brazil, he goes back to Brazil, he plays for Sao Paulo and Kageyama plays for an Italian team, and they go. It's the start of the game. They go to do the handshake thing and they both say this time I'm going to win, yeah, and that's the end of the manga. Oh my god, I love that. And Hinata and Kageyama will's the end of the manga. Oh my God, I love that.

01:01:23

And Hinata and Kageyama will spend the rest of their lives playing volleyball against and with each other. I personally think that they retire. After they retire from professional sports, they become coaches and I think they live together and I think that happens, whether or not they're gay, I think even if they are two straight people, I don't think either of them get married to women. I think they're just. They are two best friends who live together. I think they build a volleyball court in their backyard.

01:01:52

I think they, and the whole time they keep a running tally of their wins and losses, so throughout the show, like they race together all the time, like they're constantly racing. If they're going somewhere together, they're racing to see who gets there first, and then whoever wins will be like okay, that's 27 wins for me and like 26 wins for you. And then, by the time they get to msby adlers when they get to the jack adlers game in the time skip they're talking about like Hinata's. Like okay, well, that's like 1115 wins for me and like a thousand, like two, yeah, like a thousand one hundred and like twenty wins for you. And one of the other characters is like what are you guys talking about? They're like it's our running tally that we've been keeping up of our wins and losses that we've been keeping since high school. And he's like that's too much for me yeah, yeah yeah, and so that's, that's haikyuu, that's kagehina.

01:02:41

and there's more like gay stuff we could talk about, like two characters who are like best friends, another two characters who like go on a whirlwind, whirlwind tour of the world together. That's asanoya, yeah, and, and there's just like a lot of gay stuff, but, like the, the crux of the story, the core of the story, is about kagehina. It's about their rivalry and it's about their love. It's about their love. Do you have anything you'd like to say about that?

SJ

01:03:04

oh, my god, I am shocked how much I teared up for you describing the panels to me. I'm not actually looking at them. Oh, I'm showing them your storytelling of it. Yeah, incredible, incredible, I mean.

rainbow

01:03:22

Yeah, like, what depth that storyteller and like yeah, I don't remember his name, Furudate that's okay, yeah went to to dig into like that level of emotion and companionship and partnership.

SJ

01:03:41

I think that's incredible.

rainbow

01:03:42

I love that yeah, and that's something in kage, you know, they are partners. There's an episode where they get into a big fight, and they like a fist fight, like they're like grappling with each other. And then on the way home, Hinata's talking about yachi, who I told you about, the other manager, and he says he says something along the lines of like, you know, when I met you, you know, with Kageyama, it wasn't just that I had a teammate or a friend, it's that I had a partner. Yeah, and I just think that's so beautiful, yeah, it's all so beautiful. And he's like crying, talking about like Kageyama and how he thought they were partners.

01:04:20

And that's when you know Hinata wants to change the freak quick and Kageyama doesn't want to. And you know, for Hinata, he feels like Kageyama still doesn't trust him. And that's another thing is like there's a big thing with trust. Like Hinata, when he first does his quick and he has his eyes closed, he's like I don't know how else to do it other than to trust you. Yeah, and oh, it's really good fodder for fan fiction. I can see there's a whole lot. Yeah, I've written quite a few things myself that are really about like the someone better thing is ridiculous and there's like a line where Kageyama says to Hinata like listen, you're not very good, like you don't have a lot of skills, but with with me, you're invincible. Yeah.

SJ

01:05:03

And just like what is more reminiscent of, like your better half.

rainbow

01:05:08

Yeah, you know, yeah, they like they complement each other, they complete each other and they're just amazing. And I also think they're all, I think most of them are poly. I consider Hinata like a poly slut who will just, oh, yeah, he's consider Hinata like a poly slut who will just, oh, yeah, he's fucking a lot of different people and but. But in what I always say is that everyone wants to be Hinata, because Hinata like sparks rivalry in a lot of people like he. Almost every player he meets is like I want to beat this kid, and so everyone wants to be Hinata. Hinata wants to be Kageyama, yeah, and, and that's that's that.

01:05:43

On that, that's real, yeah I love that is there anything that you want to add before we wrap this up anything I want to add.

SJ

01:05:51

I don't really have any traditional socials. I'm gay, jordan on fetlife yeah, yeah.

rainbow

01:06:00

Well, thank you so much for doing this. This is our first guest episode that we've recorded, and I'm really excited. So thank you for joining. Thank you for jumping into a show you had never seen before and talking about it. I think this was a great conversation. We've given em lots to edit thank you.

SJ

01:06:17

I am thrilled to get to engage a little bit in what I know is such a big part of you and Em's world.

rainbow

01:06:25

Thank you, we really appreciate it. All right, everybody. Well, that is it for us. We will be back next week with a regular episode. We're getting into season three, Shiratorizawa. Let's go, and I'm going to do the sign off this time. So until next time, fly high. Woo, I'm going to do the sign-off this time. So until next time, fly high.